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Large Bowie knives for carry?

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#1
Teapot

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Would a large 14" bladed bowie knife be too large for every day carry do you think? A friend of mine makes blades as a hobby in his forge. I told him I want him to make a large bowie blade for me and the pattern or style I chose is the Shiva Ki "fightin' bowie". I have always carried a knife of some sort for SD for many years. This Shiva Ki bowie for me was the perfect knife for sd and other tasks. I plan on this style in 5160. Damascus would be nice but $ is the limitation.
What thinks you of this blade? Practical for carry or too big? Sorry but I cannot pst a photograph as our chain of command has seen fit to bar many internet sites including image hosting sites. Just type in Shiva Ki fightin' bowie and you will see the image.

#2
rio

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whats the usage? how much actual carry are you going to do? etc...

#3
Teapot

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Carry (self defence and "tool") will be every day as one cannot carry a pistol for SD in Canada.

#4
Guest_warthog_*

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one cannot carry a large bowie for SD in Canada either...

They aren't that hard to conceal with the right sheath.

#5
rio

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what thickness ??5160 is a fine steel , keep it dry:tu: 14 inches is just about right

#6
Teapot

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one cannot carry a large bowie for SD in Canada either...

They aren't that hard to conceal with the right sheath.


SD in Canada? No, you are well informed and correct. This bowie will be first and foremost a tool for cutting jobs of all kinds. If I should require it for sd then anything at hand will do like a loaf of bread, stick or perhaps the bowie I carry. If stopped by our police and questioned about an openly carried knife it must always be referred to as a tool. I hope you understand. I carry a pistol and rifle daily here in Afghanistan but will not be trusted to do so in my own country.
So it is a tool this proposed bowie which would be use in sd only in dire necessity.

Rio, I am thinking !/4" thick. Have you seen the design I propose copying?

#7
Andrew Colglazier

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SD in Canada? No, you are well informed and correct. This bowie will be first and foremost a tool for cutting jobs of all kinds. If I should require it for sd then anything at hand will do like a loaf of bread, stick or perhaps the bowie I carry. If stopped by our police and questioned about an openly carried knife it must always be referred to as a tool. I hope you understand. I carry a pistol and rifle daily here in Afghanistan but will not be trusted to do so in my own country.
So it is a tool this proposed bowie which would be use in sd only in dire necessity.

Rio, I am thinking !/4" thick. Have you seen the design I propose copying?


Like this one?
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#8
Teapot

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:wg:

#9
Stabber

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14 inch blade EDC, So about 19 AOL? :cornfused A bit to big for a Carry piece IMO.
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#10
Maine1

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the way i look at it, it depends on YOUR size. I can and do conceal 8-10 1/2" large blades IWB opposite my pistol, but a 10 1/2" blade is about my limit, a longer blade starts to get conspicuous by tenting out my pants, or jutting out when i sit or bend- the shorter blades do not, as the length of my torso, and leg, and the method of carry hide it pretty well. You can still carry a longer blade, just have to adjust things a little.

good for you in wanting to carry a full size knife...there is no replacement.

#11
Teapot

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I don't think I would be uncomfortable carrying a large knife. The one I am thinking of I first saw on "defensereview.com" and is the Stephen Crane inspired "Fightin' Bowie".
I can have a friend make this for me if he has time. It won't be the same metal and it will be made by cutting a piece of 5160 to shape, grinding out the finished blade then heat treating the whole. I am assuming this is how he will do it but I really don't know. He is over here with me in a different part of the country so I will probably only see him when the tour is over.
I was also thinking of asking him to make a machete for me out of the same steel.
This bowie design I am talking about has the handle angled downwards like in a fencing foil. It makes perfect sense to me for it's application. If one of you guys can post a picture of this bowie for me from the above site I'd appreciate it. The army has cut off any downloading or image hosting site here. The photo will allow you to understand how well thought-out this design is.

#12
Andrew Colglazier

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I don't think I would be uncomfortable carrying a large knife. The one I am thinking of I first saw on "defensereview.com" and is the Stephen Crane inspired "Fightin' Bowie".
I can have a friend make this for me if he has time. It won't be the same metal and it will be made by cutting a piece of 5160 to shape, grinding out the finished blade then heat treating the whole. I am assuming this is how he will do it but I really don't know. He is over here with me in a different part of the country so I will probably only see him when the tour is over.
I was also thinking of asking him to make a machete for me out of the same steel.
This bowie design I am talking about has the handle angled downwards like in a fencing foil. It makes perfect sense to me for it's application. If one of you guys can post a picture of this bowie for me from the above site I'd appreciate it. The army has cut off any downloading or image hosting site here. The photo will allow you to understand how well thought-out this design is.


Went and looked but couldn't find the knife mentioned. :shrug:

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#13
Teapot

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You can find the knife review and photographs here:

http://www.defensere...-fast-and-mean/

#14
Teapot

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Stock removal may not get me a strong blade. I read a post on another forum from 2,002. The OP was asking about making a knife from stock removal from 5160 and this is what a smith replied to him:

If you heat treat it by the heat treat manuals (as any commercial outfit would), performance will likely be no better than a blade made of 1084 or 1095. The combination of forging and heat treating that most of us "Pounders" do to the steel is what really brings it to life.
First things first......are you forging? Or will the blade be a stock removal? This has a great deal of impact on how these two steels will perform! Some may argue the point, but I've done the "homework", and testing to verify this. A stock removal blade of either with "standard" heat treatment will perform no better than a blade of 10 series steel with the same heat treatment. Where you will aquire the performance is in the thermal cycles of the multiple quench process. Forging will create the grain flow, normalizing and annealing will refine the grain structure, and the multiple quench will further enhance the blade's integrity.
Either will make an excellent camp type blade, but 5160 will give you more leeway during the process. It is more forgiving of mistakes than 52100. On the other hand, 52100 will make a little better blade, but you must be "dead on" with your handling of the material. 52100 won't tolerate overheating, and unless you feel confident that you can "nail" each and every step of the process, 5160 is your best choice. In the end, it all boils down to the makers familiarity and knowledge of the chosen steel, and the ability to get the most out of it.
Good luck!


What thinks you all?

#15
NJStricker

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Stock removal can get you a great blade.

The "smith" is right in that it is the thermal cycling that is important in getting the most out of a particular steel, especially the low alloy carbon steels. But, he is comparing apples and oranges in terms of a stock removal blade without thermal cycling vs. a forged blade with thermal cycling.

You can do the same thermal cycling to a stock removal blade and still get a great blade. You don't have to hammer on it.

Grain structure is affected by the thermal cycles. You can still normalize a stock removal blade (in fact, it's recommended to remove stress from grinding). You can still do multiple quench and temper cycles (though not all carbon steels need multiple quenches).

Besides, if you get an experienced person trying to forge a blade, they can screw up a piece of steel before it ever gets to the quench.

And, unless you find a 'smith like Tai Goo that forges a blade 95% to shape, most forgers do--you guessed it--stock removal--to finish their blades.

#16
Teapot

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What would be ideal steel to work on via stock removal? If I got a piece of steel from a knife supply shop in order to make the knife myself by tracing a pattern, cutting it out and then grinding it into shape (ensuring the steel didn't become too hot), what kind of heat treatment, if any, and what type of steel would you recommend? I mentioned 5160 as my friend works with it.

#17
Andrew Colglazier

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What would be ideal steel to work on via stock removal? If I got a piece of steel from a knife supply shop in order to make the knife myself by tracing a pattern, cutting it out and then grinding it into shape (ensuring the steel didn't become too hot), what kind of heat treatment, if any, and what type of steel would you recommend? I mentioned 5160 as my friend works with it.


5160 is a fine steel to work with. The 1080 series steels are also very good.

What NJStricker said about steel heat treat is dead on. Many folks will argue that forging vs. stock removal makes a different in the quality of the steel, but in reality it doesn't matter a whit which way a blade is made so long as the heat treat is done properly.

Andy
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#18
Andrew Colglazier

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Here is a pic of the blade Teapot has been speaking of -

http://www.defensere...fast-and-mean/#

Is that pic showing up for anybody? Not for me..... Let's try this one....
Posted Image
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#19
Teapot

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Thanks AC. I am in awe of this knife. have always liked large bowies and this just meets all the characteristics that I desire in one.
If anyone here would like to take a crack at it for me.....
Actually when I contacted Shiva Ki (aka Master Ki) about buying such a blade he told me he no longer makes blades and was going to send me a Mercenary model knife he had free. I forgot to give him a zip with my base address so he sent it to an MP in Iraq instead. My loss. I bought the Glock 78, re-profiled it and it serves me well.
For back home though I want a bowie like this.

#20
Maine1

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if your friend has a good HT method worked out for 5160, you should be all set. Regardless of how the blade was made-stock removal or forging- if he differentially heat treats the blade, you should be good to go. This is also true for about any straight carbon steel, the HT is the key. I find forging a larger blade better in the sense that i do not remove as much metal, and its quicker and easier to get the tapers i want.

I have made some knives from leaf spring, and they will take some abuse. Some were forged, some cut out...some a little of each.

Again, with the carry, if you WANT to carry a large blade, and it sounds like you do, you will find a way to do so. i find those that say "this gun/knife is 'too big' to carry" are not committed to to carry as much as their own convenience. Now, lifestyle and location DO play a part...but you can also work around it if you are really motivated.

good luck, i am really looking forward to seeing your blade and carry system.




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